by Lisa Y. Garibay
October 2007
Marc Forster on the set of The Kite Runner
Before Marc Forster became the next director to take the steering wheel of the James Bond franchise, he had bolstered his daring oeuvre with projects large and small including Everything Put Together, Stay, Finding Neverland, Stranger Than Fiction, and his latest release, The Kite Runner. Depending on whom you ask, it may have made no sense at all that Forster ended up directing this adaptation of Khaled Hosseini's best-selling novel spanning three decades of Afghan history and a heartbreaking series of missteps that drives two friends apart — especially after the epic book topped all expectations and became revered by millions of readers around the world.
On the other hand, Forster's fearless and successful leadership had already made successes of films spanning a wide variety of periods, places, and characters, so why not add one more to the mix?
For producer Rebecca Yeldham, Forster was the first and best choice for The Kite Runner from the moment she read the book in its galley, pre-published form. As one who had championed The Motorcycle Diaries — an adaptation that for many years was believed to be impossible — to fruition, Yeldham firmly believed that a story as compelling as The Kite Runner would, in the end, overcome any obstacles that had to be traversed in bringing it to the big screen.
Forster and Yeldham [click here to read her interview] discuss their long history and why their experiences, both together and on separate projects, meant The Kite Runner would be made despite all odds and the fact that they both classify it as the hardest thing they've ever done. Paramount Vantage releases The Kite Runner in theaters on November 2; a screening of the film will kick off Film Independent's 2007 Filmmaker Forum on Friday, October 19, followed by a Q&A with Yeldham and the film's other producers.
A project getting so much attention like this one might expected to be seen at film festivals, yet the decision was made to not screen this film much prior to its November theatrical release. Can you tell me why?
There were a couple of factors. Because of the position I'm in prepping Bond in London, my time is very limited, so it was hard for me in advance to commit to any festivals. Also, the other thing was I felt like ultimately what best works with festivals is if you want to discover a film and I felt this film in a sense has been discovered because the book has been discovered. I felt like the film should be discovered in a similar way and it should be from slowly having screenings to subtly find its way to an audience. I also feel like at the big festivals, there's such an overflow of movies that unless you come with big movie stars... I think it's either a small film should get discovered or you have these big films and I felt we didn't fit in either category. And I felt, to be honest, going with Monster’s Ball to Berlin, with Finding Neverland to Venice, and with Stranger Than Fiction to Toronto, I enjoyed them very much, but for Kite Runner it didn't feel right to me.
Apart from that, to be honest, the movie just got finished at the end of August, beginning of September. So one of the other reasons was I didn't want to rush my deadlines for a festival because I had these visual effects shots and when you're looking for a lower budget and you don't have tons of money to throw at it, it sometimes takes a little longer to get them right. So, we literally finished just now — I think our print was done September 10th. If I had gone to Toronto or Venice, I would have not come with a print I would've totally been happy with; I'd have been stressed and just would've finished it for the festival. I really didn't want to do that.
Let's talk about the level of stress on you but from a different angle — not necessarily internal stress, but external expectations. This was your first adaptation of a book and a very popular one at that. Tell me about the expectations you might have to deal with in turning such a successful novel into a movie.
I first read the book in 2003. [Producer] Rebecca Yeldham gave it to me when it had just come out. It wasn't a big bestseller yet because it still was just out in hardcover and it became a bestseller once it went into paperback. When I read it first, I just loved it; I thought, "Oh, my God, this is a complicated adaptation!" but I was thinking maybe it would be an unknown book and only a few people would've read it and I could do something interesting. (Laughs)
Ultimately, it became this huge bestseller and when I decided that I really wanted to do it, I realized that I can't make a film that's better than the book because there are so many people who love that book and are obsessed with it and it's their favorite book ever. So I thought, "The only thing I can do is a companion piece to the book, and to enable that companion piece to stand on its own legs." That's what I was really trying to do because I knew that it's never the case or really seldom that you go and see a movie and say, "The movie's better than the book!" Especially in this case where it has such an enormous fan base and so many people feel like it’s their favorite book. I'm not going to reach for that — all I'm going to reach for is to capture the spirit of the book and create a companion piece that stands on its own.
When did David Benioff sign on to write the screenplay and how did you work with him in terms of this vision you had?
In 2003, Rebecca wanted to get me attached and make it as my next movie. I was doing Stay in New York and I said, "I can't attach myself to it because there's no script. But I love the book." They came back to me in 2005 when I was shooting Stranger Than Fiction in Chicago and it was just then that David Benioff wrote a first draft. They gave it to me and I really responded to it and loved it. And then I got involved working with them and David on the script and that pretty much lasted until a few weeks before shooting.
Why do you think that Rebecca went to you way back then to make you the director of The Kite Runner?
It’s funny — Rebecca and I go way back because she was the one who selected Everything Put Together for Sundance. She was a programmer and she was the person who called me that I got into Sundance - that was the first time that I heard Rebecca's voice! So we go way back and she felt like that because of Everything Put Together, Monster's Ball, and Finding Neverland that I would have the right mix to be able to capture the story with regard to children but also the hard reality of it, the softness of it, and the emotional part of it and not make it too... You know, there's a thin line you walk with these movies when you work with children when it becomes overly manipulative or you’re trying to milk the whole topic too much.
What kind of input did you get from Khaled Hosseini? Did you invite him to collaborate with you during production?
When I got the script in 2005, I felt like I really connected with the script and felt that David really did a beautiful job in adapting it. And then, obviously, I send it off to Khaled Hosseini and wanted to get his input, if he felt that the spirit was captured properly from his book. I always asked him for his notes — David, too — and he always sent us his notes. With the last draft, he wrote us this beautiful email and said, "I feel really emotionally connected to this draft and I think you guys really captured what needs to be captured from the novel," and he was very pleased.
The vast majority of the cast is unknown, especially to a Western audience. So people look to you and your past successes to gauge the film's quality. Does that raise the level of responsibility that you feel to a project like this?
I'm very naïve about this sometimes; I just say, "I like this story," and don't think, "There are millions of people who love that book..." or, "I have to recreate Kabul in the 70's — how am I gonna do that in a language I don't even speak?" (Laughs) Things don't really cross my mind. I just say, "This is an important story and I really connect with it — I should tell this story!" Usually, when I'm very deep into it, I realize, "Ooh, I hadn't thought about that..." And it's interesting: I think when filmmakers make more movies or get older, their work often becomes different because they know more and they don't have that naivè or that blindness with which they often walk into situations when they're younger. They've become more cautious; they're aware and often that sort of unknown factor brings out incredible creative things in you. That is one of the reasons I thought making a Bond film is something interesting. I always try to choose these things where I get confronted with the unknown and with hurdles I been faced with before. And that's why with Kite Runner I wasn't thinking about all of the problems and issues I'd actually have to face to make the film.
That's what a producer is for, right?
Yes! (Laughs)
The things that pop up during production are one thing, but the daring to start a project you know is going to be difficult from the start is another. That could very well be the reason why you were singled out to direct Kite Runner, given the body of work that you had assembled at that point and the fact that you demonstrate this fearlessness about tackling a period or a subject or such different casts. When you're deep into a difficult project like this, what are some of the worst things that happen? What are those points when you say to yourself, "Why did I decide to do this and how could I have been so naïve?"
You know, there are so many points. It started when I wanted to do proper research; I felt like with casting we couldn't find anybody or very few people in the West. But traveling to Kabul, being in Kabul, traveling to northern Pakistan — Peshawar, which is really where as a Westerner you're not really welcome; it's one of I would say the most dangerous places there is to go to. Researching that area and casting was hard.
Then shooting in Western China in a province called Xinjiang, which is basically populated by the Uyghars and the Uyghars speak only Uyghar and the Chinese are to them pretty much like they are to Tibet; they've been oppressed by the Chinese for many years. So you have us in this province in a place called Kashgar, which was our main base, where the Uyghars live and where we have the Chinese and we have the Afghan cast and you have four languages going on. You have Uyghar, Chinese, Dari and English. We had a crew of 28 nationalities in the middle of nowhere — no crew ever shot there. It's very hard for any resources to get supplied there. You underestimate sometimes these situations and often we shot at 12,000 or 14,000 feet altitude so you have this very thin air. You're based in these places that are beautiful, as you see in the movie — the mountain ranges and the landscapes and the locations are really, really special and it really fits Kabul in the 70's. But all the circumstances to get people there, in and out... We all stayed in the same hotel and there's this closeness — even with people who speak different languages, you get very close, which was a fascinating experience.
But I remember this thing one day: the sound man said to the sound assistant "Can you go down to the river and record some sound?" And she said to him, wondering, "But how should I do that? I'm all by myself!" Usually, she'd have two or three more assistants because with the Chinese, there's so many people so you usually have a huge crew. (Laughs) And in China they were very surprised that we didn't shoot seven days a week, because the Chinese shoot seven days a week — even for something like a 120-day shoot — and for 16 or 18 hours a day. They just shoot! There's no break and they were surprised that we actually took days off.
I was told the budget for Kite Runner was $20 million and I'm surprised that you managed to finish the movie for that amount given all that it must have taken to get so many people to such a remote place and to have to work there.
Well, it's China, of course, and in China there are still 800 million Chinese who work for between $2 and $3 a day. So China is like a whole other world and hotels or stuff like that are very inexpensive. We had a huge Chinese crew and then I had to limit the people I brought from the West. We shot most of the interiors in Beijing on a studio so that we'd have to shoot very little in San Francisco.
Let's discuss that otherworldliness that you just mentioned about China and then, of course, the other world that you're portraying within the film, which is Kabul in the 70's as well as that city present-day. First off all, how much of the decision to do this movie was any kind of political statement on your part in terms of what's going on now? By that I mostly mean the U.S. presence in the Middle East. And secondly, when you're in a country where there are millions of people that are existing in third world conditions and you come from a place of more privilege, as an artist do you kind of feel some sense of duty to enlighten people back home about these conditions? Do you feel like you are exploiting these people to create your art? Or do these things even occur to you at all?
That's a good question, especially in regard to the political thing. I always saw the story as a redemption story — the book and the film as well — and I think all the political aspects are sort of the backdrop. I didn't want to push them down people's throats. I mean, you see them and you recognize them but I didn't want to make them like, "Here, look!" because ultimately I think it's a human story and you can set the story in any country or any place in the world and it's still the same story. It's about betrayal, it's about love, it's about making things right again, and it's something very humanistic which we all live through.
In regard to the second part of the question, I think any artist creating any kind of art and collaborating with people on any film, you ultimately have to ask yourself that question. I mean, you're going back to a very old concept of Karl Marx: if someone works for you, do you exploit that person? I don't think it's only in regard to the third world; it's in regard to any world. I think ultimately that you're not forcing anybody to work with you when you come to a place like that; you ask people if they're interested and some people say no and some people say yes and some people don't want anything to do with Westerners and some people do. The book itself was published in Iran in Farsi and in Kabul, in Afghanistan, of the people I met a lot of them were familiar with it. You have some people who love it and think it's the best thing ever and some people who are more controversial about it. So it depends on who you're talking to and who feels what, you know?
But I think ultimately for filmmakers or writers or artists it is to create things which hopefully can enlighten one's self while you're creating them and hopefully can capture something which creates a reaction in others. Positive or negative, hopefully it creates discussion and that discussion creates a world in which we can evolve and become more conscious.
As for the question of exploitation for me, I feel if you pay people fairly and treat them fairly and collaborate with them fairly and they're aware of what they're getting into, then I don't think you're exploiting them. I think if that wouldn't be the case, then it's a different question.
Speaking of an artist's role as an enlightener, how were you or anyone working with you during the production of the film enlightened during the process, if at all?
I thought the Afghan cast really had a wonderful time because for most of them it was the first time they were out of the country. They were traveling, they had a passport, and they really enjoyed themselves. I more had an issue with often the Uyghars and the Chinese — we, the Americans, were in the middle, you know? I thought it was sometimes a much more complex situation than it had to be to get permits to shoot in certain locations; sometimes it happened at just the last minute. I wasn't aware of the tension before I got there, which taught me something: read up on places you go to! (Laughs) You may have heard about Tibet, but have you heard of Xinjiang and the Uyghars?
I have not. See, you are enlightening people!
(Laughs) To be honest, I don't know if I can enlighten people. For me, making movies is just for myself to find more constant enlightenment; I didn't mean to say it was to enlighten others. I think that to create as an artist is to create a discussion for others. If they like the movie or dislike the movie, ultimately it doesn't matter, you know? What really matters is that a discussion gets created or thoughts are provoked. The reason why I wanted to do Kite Runner was because I think there's something very deeply human about the book and the story and I think that human spirit, the humanity, was very important for me to capture because that humanity has certainly been missing in our world today.
It's the humanity in so many moments; for instance, when Baba stands up against the Russian soldier and tells him that even war doesn't mean there shouldn't be any decency. Things like that are definitely missing in today's world. There's no code of honor anymore. I think even, let's say, the Italian mafia had a very clear code of honor; of course, they were not nice people, but there was a code of honor. Today, a code of honor doesn't exist anymore, so it's just like a total breakdown of society. And I'm not just saying of the people who are in power but just in general.
Going back the story and how it transcends its setting, which is why so many people connected with it — because it's essentially human. When you're working with actors who maybe have never acted before and who most definitely do not speak your language, how do you as a director do your thing with them when it's usually so nuanced, that kind of communication between an actor and a director? Mostly, I'm speaking about the children, especially since they've got such big roles.
The children could speak a little English but not well and I had a translator. She was really key on this journey and picking her was very important. She was Afghani but also grew up in the States and she speak not just Dari and English but also Arabic, Hindi, and Urdu, which is the Pakistani language. So she speaks like five or six languages of the region fluently. So she really understood the nuances and understood what I was trying to stay and could really communicate it to the kids.
[The children and I] had long discussions. Ahmad — who plays Hassan — had a really complex understanding about the character and the story; that's how he was able to play the part like that; I think he's incredibly powerful and he really understood it. Zekeria [who played young Amir] was a little more playful in that sense. But for both of them, we rehearsed a lot, went a lot through the scenes; we also played a lot, but they had a very deep understanding of the characters and then I just told them what I wanted. When we played the scenes, they just got it.
Do you think that anything you'd done for your previous movies could've prepared you for this experience — things like dealing with communication through interpreters and shooting in this remote location? Was it truly just jumping in with naivetè or did you have something to draw upon?
I think nothing could've prepared me for this shoot! It was the most painful experience of my life! (Laughs) I have these European friends who are starving artists and they said, "Marc, you can only create art if you really suffer." I believe — and I always have believed — that you can create art through joy and happiness. You don't have to suffer! And I really believed that. Now that I've done The Kite Runner, people come up to me saying, "Oh, my God, we love that movie — it's your best work!" I want to say, "Don't tell me that, because I suffered!" (Laughs)
The thing is that ultimately, it was an adventure, but it was a very hard film to make. I realized it was like Coppola's Apocalypse Now or Werner Herzog's Fitzcarraldo — they were in remote locations and when you are there, you pretty much don't have access to really any resources, and it just gets very tricky. There were some moments where we were shooting and realized, "Oh, the film stock didn't arrive yesterday," so we were just shooting on short ends, trying to make it work.
To wrap everything up, I want to cover the fact that we're screening The Kite Runner as the kick-off to our Filmmaker Forum. As such, it could set the tone for the rest of the weekend, at least by making people think about larger issues but then also be inspired by what you pulled off as a filmmaker. Why do you think people might be able to learn from your experience with The Kite Runner? Why should they keep it in mind as they're going through Forum?
I think that the thing is for people to remember is that obviously I wouldn't have been able to cast only unknowns and shoot the film in Dari if the book was an unknown book and they hadn't given me $20 million. The first budget they gave me was $12 or $15 million and it would have been just simply impossible to make the movie for that. And they wanted to shoot the whole thing in English; I was really fighting for it not to be because I felt that the main thing was to make the film as authentic as possible and try to keep it as real as possible in capturing that spirit. On several occasions it was the typical story; it fell apart and came back together and we were very lucky that Sidney Kimmel and Participant really stepped up and were willing to finance it. That really was a key issue.
But I think it's important for people just to know that if one has a vision for something, really, anything is possible. So often what I run into when I talk to other filmmakers trying to make their first feature is they say, "We're trying to raise this extra million for our $2 million film." I felt like that with Everything Put Together and then also with Monster's Ball and the same with Finding Neverland — which was funny because we got greenlit at $20 million and I think the movie then cost $21 or $22 million. We had way too little money to begin with, but there's never enough money and I feel like in this day and age, if you have some money, you can make the movie and there must be a way to tell the story. Nothing should hold one back and one should figure out a creative way to tell a story. I always have that belief: that one just has to keep fighting for one's vision and try no matter what to realize that.
Marc Forster received the Someone to Watch grant at the 2001 Spirit Awards.
