FILMMAKER INTERVIEW: THE MAKING OF PARIAH
Film Independent is excited to screen Dee Rees’ debut feature Pariah on December 8 as one if its Project Involve community screenings. Dee and her producer Nekisa Cooper are both Film Independent Fellows – Nekisa was in Project Involve in 2008-2009, Dee and Nekisa were finalists for the Netflix FIND Your Voice Award, and Film Independent awarded a Kodak Film Stock grant to Pariah when it shot in 2009. And Dees’ short film Pariah played the Los Angeles Film Festival in 2007, where it won the Audience Award. Dee was recently named a 2011 Fellow by United States Artists, and Pariah received two nominations for the 2012 Film Independent Spirit Awards – the film was nominated for the John Cassevetes Award, and Adepero Oduye was nominated for Best Female Lead.
Recently, Nekisa and Dee came in to talk with the new class of filmmakers in Project Involve. Before the workshop, Film Independent’s Director of Artist Development, Josh Welsh, sat down with Dee and Nekisa to talk about the making of Pariah.
Dee Rees on the set of 'Pariah'
Sorry to do this but I’m going to start like Chris Farley in those old Saturday Night Live segments, by gushing over the film. You have made such a beautiful film! Before we get into talking about how you made it, it’s such an accomplished film on every level – the writing, the acting, the visual look of the film, the music, everything.
I know you’ve been working on this for a while. You first wrote the script back in 2005, right? Do you feel that the film turned out better than if you had gotten your money up front, when you first started on this?
Dee Rees: A huge, resounding yes. Thank God nobody gave us the money in 2007! I think it got better because we all matured as artists. I became a better writer and director, Bradford [Young] became a better DP, the actors really got to settle into their roles, everyone got better.
Nekisa Cooper: We actually all had worked together before. Pariah was our fourth project together. Dee and Brad went to Liberia to shoot a doc, Eventual Salvation, then we shot the short of Pariah together, and then we went to Wales to shoot another short, Colonial Gods. So Pariah the feature was our fourth project with that core team working together. And yeah, thank God nobody gave us money back in 2007. We all matured as artists, gelled as a team. We were like a well-oiled machine by the time the feature itself came around. It made my life as a producer much, much easier. Brad and Dee had a shorthand that was just really beautiful to watch. We had years to talk about the look of the film, I had years to cultivate contacts with key vendors. Our post-production house, Deluxe, they broke ground on their New York office in April of 2008, I think, and we were the first ones in the door. We met with everybody, telling them about our story as artists and up-and-coming filmmakers, and the story we were trying to tell with Pariah, and just asking for their help. They signed on then and there and we just kept in touch.
So you wrote the feature script before doing the short?
DR: I did, yes. I wrote the feature in the summer of 2005. I was interning for Spike Lee on Inside Man. On my lunch breaks I would scurry away and write it out in long hand. Then I needed a thesis film to graduate from NYU and this was the thing that was on my mind. So we took the first act from it, the first 30 pages and shot it as a short.
Which was daunting in itself because everyone kept saying, ‘You can’t shoot a 30 minute short, nobody’s gonna program it!’ We were like, ‘Whatever!’ So we did the short film, and the short didn’t immediately take off. It went almost a year before it started to get programmed.
NC: To be real about it, we got rejected by Sundance, by SXSW, by Tribeca, and it premiered in New York at the NYU Fusion Film Festival in April 2007.
DR: Then it started to get legs with the gay festivals. Like Frameline, Newfest, Outfest. And then the mainstream festivals picked it up. The Los Angeles Film Festival picked it up and then it started to take off from there.
NC: The Los Angeles Film Festival was really our first time thinking, wow this film stands not only as a LGBT film, but it stands on its own because it was one of the first festivals that programmed the short among other shorts. It wasn’t the gay shorts, you know. We were mixed in with international shorts, shorts with other types of themes, for lovers of short films. So it was an amazing thing to win the Audience Award. It was validating for the story telling. It was our first big win.
When you came back to the feature, after seeing how the short played with audiences, did you revise the script significantly?
DR: The script evolved a lot. It went through about ten drafts total. One of the things that came out of the festival circuit, from that very first screening at the NYU Women’s Film Festival, was that Rachel Chanoff, who’s a scout for the Sundance Feature Film program, was on the jury for that festival. She asked, “Is there a feature we should be considering?” and I was like, “Hell yes.” So we got invited to the 2007 Screenwriters Lab at Sundance, and then the Directors Lab in 2008. The Sundance Labs were really the creative safe space for the film. They didn’t care about commercial viability, it was all about, ‘We want to help you tell your story in the best possible way.’ And for me, it was my first validation as an artist, like, maybe you’re good at this. It gave me permission to really focus on the film. A lot changed – I got a chance to understand the characters more, and because part of it was personal it gave me that objectivity to really understand, like, this is who Arthur is, for example. I can’t protect him. When I first wrote it I thought, he’s not really cheating, it just seems like that. But in the Lab, it was, ‘Oh my God, he’s cheating!’ And with Audrey, I realized that she was the one who had to have done the violence and not Arthur, because he wouldn’t have been capable of that.
You do such a beautiful job of writing the family scenes, there’s such nuance between all the characters, you allow for a lot of subtext, and people don’t say everything that they’re thinking. Were there parts of the script that were more challenging for you to write? Did you struggle with any parts more than others?
DR: The scene between Arthur and Alike, when they’re having that truce conversation where it’s clear they both know each other’s secrets and are agreeing not to tell. That one I really had to think about, because they’re agreeing to keep each other’s secrets but it has to be unsaid. But there’s this turn where they both want to ask each other but then they don’t – so that was tricky.
Also, the dinner table conversation was something I really wanted to nail. In the production of it, I ended up giving the two sisters, Alike and Sharonda, ad hoc lines that Kim and Charles didn’t know were coming. I gave Alike the line, “What are your memories?” and I gave Sharonda the lines “I’m having sex at prom” and “Did you have sex at prom?” [Laughter] Kim [Wayans] was like, “Wait, what? Can I see the sides please?”
Adepero Oduye & Kim Wayans in 'Pariah'
On the production side of things, I know that you got a lot of non-profit institutional support and grants funding. Could you talk about how that factored into your production?
NC: Early on in the fundraising process, Dee and I were naïve in thinking that if we had the Sundance laurels and support from Film Independent, and were Fellows, and all these organizations are holding us up as these filmmakers that are emerging voices, that it would equal people writing checks. That was our first mistake. So we packaged the film, I did a business plan, we did everything you’re supposed to do to put all of the elements into place. We took it out first to production companies and right away we would get, “The writing is great, you guys are great, but this story is too small and specific to warrant investment. We don’t think the audience will be big enough.” So after hearing that many times over, and also hearing that it’s too black and too gay, we knew that private equity was the way to go.
Also, coming to this from the business world, for me the question was always what is the marketplace’s support for this film? My job sits at that intersection of art and commerce. It was hard at times to be objective. I would think, “Damn, we should be able to make this movie for 2 million dollars. That’s what we should be able to make it for.” But the marketplace is only going to support something way less than a million dollars. So having that realization that you’re going to have to work, and do more for less, was a tough realization, but we had to get over that. And then it was a matter of looking at like films and doing the financial analysis to see that actually, you have to make this film for the smallest amount of private equity possible to give this project the most probability of being able to pay back. Because if we can’t make this film and pay back our investors, then all sorts of doors are gong to close for future projects that have similar themes.
That was a little bit challenging, but after we got over all that, we went to the grant space, to affinity organizations that believe in the double bottom line: we want to make something that’s commercially viable but also has a message. We really do have that ideal, that one popcorn bucket at a time, we can try to change hearts and minds. The reason we’re making the film was to spark dialogue. So going to the grants space first is invaluable to independent film. Not only do you get people who are willing to write checks that you don’t have to pay back, but you also get the support, the advocacy, in that space. You get introductions, all sorts of intangible assets that come with grant support. Organizations like Sundance, the Astraea Foundation, Frameline, Cinereach, the Gill Foundation, Renew Media, Rockefeller – we ran the gamut in terms of grant making support. All of that was helpful outside of just the monies themselves. So it was a hybrid approach. Part grants, part private equity, and again the goal was to keep that number as small as possible. The balance of it ended up being the advance, at the end of the day.
DR: And our own funding too.
NC: Yeah. We did sell our own apartment. So we were part of the private equity as well.
You also did Kickstarter, right?
NC: We did Kickstarter afterwards, to get us to Sundance. We got in to Sundance and then needed funds to get there, us and the team, to pay for pulling the team together.
At the end of the day, the film was kind of made on layaway. It was a cash flow exercise. I cobbled together what monies we had and at a certain point it was like, we’re going to shoot. We’re not going to wait anymore. We’d had a couple of deals fall through, and it was like, this is how much money I have right now. It’s a week-by-week, day-by-day cash flow. Let’s get it in the can, then let’s get to edit, then let’s get to post, and that’s how I funded it. Actually, during production there were a couple days where, unbeknownst to the crew and everybody else I actually had to go get short-term loans. I was like a bookie on the corner. Like, can I hold this ten grand? Give me 60 days with no interest? I felt like it was important to me as a producer to bear that burden so we could have this environment where the artists could work, and that’s what they’re focused on. Not, where’s the camera, where’s the equipment. They have all the resources they need; they can focus on making the movie.
Producer Nekisa Cooper
How long was the shoot?
NC: It was 18 days. Shooting in December 2009, and one day of pickups in September 2010 where we shot the rooftop and the classroom. I don’t remember it being a harsh winter. There were a lot of interiors. And the other part of the production plan was localizing. We knew the Fort Green area
very well. We found a local real estate agent, and eleven of the eighteen days were in the same location. We used the same four-story brownstone to serve as a number of different locations. We were very efficient with all of our movements. You had to be.
Also, in independent film you can’t overestimate having an amazing key grip and an amazing gaffer. Our key grip was part of helping Brad build lights, so we didn’t have to pay for lights. I was on the phone with our key grip for hours, talking about how can we pre-rig environments so we can move faster throughout the day. We spent a lot of time in prep talking about all those things.
Our crew was a lean, lean team. I was the location manager in addition to producer. That’s the way we had to do it. The crew worked for a small flat fee and deferred the balance of their salaries.
DR: If it got sold.
NC: Yeah, if it got sold. As a producer, a lot of people wear it as a badge of honor, you know, “I made this film for five dollars.” But for me, that’s not something that comforts me. It’s not a comfort to ask people to sacrifice, to not be able to pay their bills, for me it’s not a badge of honor at all. So I have the biggest amount of pride now, that I was able to write those checks to the crew. Because they worked their asses off.
Then in post-production, was it just the two of you and your editor, Mako?
NC: Yeah, I was the post-production supervisor. I met Mako Kamitsuna here in Project Involve. It was at the first mixer in Project Involve — she came up to me and we met, she was just so warm and awesome. We talked throughout the night and I was like, “Dee, there’s this woman who wants to edit, we should stay in touch.”
DR: So then we had her do our trailer for the Netflix FIND Your Voice contest, and it was good, so we were, all right!
NC: We really treat the filmmaking team like a family. Families have their good days and their bad days but at the end of the day everyone has a common goal. And everyone brings their A game. So for us, it was important to have had some kind of working relationship with those key players to make sure there was the right chemistry and philosophy. Mako was an incredible addition to the team.
When you were finishing up post-production, were you imagining some specific audience for the film, and if so, what was it?
DR: We were seeing it as a cross-section of three groups: art house, LGBT, and African-Americans.
NC: What was amazing is that we screened in over 40 festivals with the short, won over 25 best short awards, across mainstream, people of color, and LGBT fests. We traveled to a lot of those different festivals and what we learned sitting in those various audiences is that it doesn’t matter if you’re in Palm Springs and the average age of the viewer is 60 or 70, everybody can find themselves in the film somewhere. Whether they identify with the parents or with the kids, it didn’t matter your race, your color, your gender, people could find themselves in the movie. That really gave us the fuel to say, you know what, I think we have something here that might change things up a bit. It helped build confidence for me to go sit with investors and say, you know what, there is an audience for this film.
So describe your experience at Sundance.
DR: (Laughter) The phone call was mind blowing. Shari Frilot called and I missed the call. She left a message saying, “Call me back,” and we were like, “Oh my God oh my God!”
NC: We had that eager anticipation going on. We knew when the call was supposed to come and we were staying by the phone, making sure we didn’t miss the call, but we still missed it!
DR: We called her back and she said it was in. And then not only was it in, but it was in competition. And then not only in competition, but it was opening night.
NC: It was one of those cartoon moments when you fall over.
DR: It was a huge vote of confidence from the festival that they believed in the film and wanted to get us the biggest audience possible.
NC: It was also a shock. We had flown under the radar, for the most part. I don’t think people knew that we shot for the longest time, and that we’d been editing. So it was like, Ok, people are going to know now!
Whom did you go to Sundance with? Did you put together a team?
NC: Absolutely. We were one of the filmmaking teams where our number one goal was to sell the film. We did the IFP post-production lab, which was amazing, because it forced us to think about scenarios A, B, C and D. We did that homework and due diligence. But we wanted to take an army and give the film the best possible chance. So having the right sales agent, having the right publicist, and having the right attorney was the Holy Grail for us. So we went with Cinetic as the sales agent.
DR: We sat outside John Sloss’ office while he watched the film.
NC: (laughter) It was kind of a Godfather situation. What’s amazing about Cinetic, and John and Bart, they’re no bullshit. I went to them, to John, and we had this really candid conversation about the film – how many films are you taking to Sundance, and if you take this film are you going to give it the attention it deserves? I know that priorities change, but we’re two people sitting here and can you guarantee me, can you give me your word? And he said yes and that was the moment. Then I went to Bart’s house and did the same thing. They were both invested in the film, and they’re both the smartest guys I know in that space.
Then Victoria Cooke, from Kurnit Klein & Selz, she’s brilliant. We met her at the Sundance Producers conference and she saw promise in us and stayed in touch. So when it was time to pick an entertainment attorney, there was no on else. And so then the final piece was finding a publicist. That part of the game we had no experience with. At that point I leaned really heavily on Mary Jane Skalski, who’s an executive producer on the film and had been my Sundance producing mentor. So we looked at big PR firms, small PR firms, individuals, and ultimately decided that a more boutique approach would be the right approach for the film. So we brought on Craig Bankey from WKT at the time. He had done Frozen River, American Splendor. He had this one man with an assistant approach, very likeable, had great relationships with the press, and was the right compliment to our sales team.
When we hit the ground, we had an army there, and Cinetic did a great job of preparing us for what to expect. The first thing was that Sundance has sort of switched things around. They were making indie films the focus of opening the festival. But buyers weren’t used to coming to the festival on opening night. They typically come that weekend, so the sales frenzy didn’t historically start until that Sunday-Monday. Cinetic prepared us for that – they said that nothing was going to happen early on. You’ll get some buzz, but just wait and be patient. So we were really well prepared for what to expect. We weren’t in a state of panic. We didn’t sell until 3 AM on January 28. That was towards the end of the festival.
Were you guys in the room with them?
NC: No, no. It was an operation. John and Bart went off with the actual buyers, and then they would come back to us and say, “They said this, they said that. Are you into this?” We would huddle for a little but, and then they would go back.
'Pariah'
My impression is that you’ve been really involved with Focus in planning the release of the film. Is that accurate?
DR: Yeah, it’s been very collaborative, they’re very artist friendly.
NC: Incredibly collaborative. In our first meeting, James Schamus said, “We’re gonna start with you guys. Tell us your story.” And that just set the tone. The entire team from top to bottom is so engaged and determined to put the film out in the best way possible. So we’ve had the fairy tale all the way through.
I want to thank you guys so much for coming to do the workshop tonight with Project Involve. It’s great to have both of you here, and Nekisa, since you were in the program, it’s really wonderful to have you hear speaking with the new class.
NC: I’m excited to be back and share the experience so that the next guys up can get it done, too.
DR: (Laughing) Yeah, and mark the spot where you met Mako. She was sitting right there, she got a Stella from that bucket…
NC: I met George Reyes in PI, too. Now we’re working on his doc, La Muñeca Fea. This program was really, really instrumental. In addition to the Los Angeles Film Festival for us that was like our introduction to the industry. We did Kodak Speed Dating when we had the short in the festival. Film Independent has been amazing for us. We’re really appreciative.
Well, we’re thrilled for you, and for the Project Involve screening on December 8, and even more so for your opening on December 28!
NC & DR: Fingers crossed!
December 6th, 2011 • 1 Comment
One Response to “FILMMAKER INTERVIEW: THE MAKING OF PARIAH”
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it was a great pleasure, to work with DEE and her crew. To have her use our liquor store as one of her filming sites, was an exciting and fun,fun,fun, learning experience.We wish her all the success, she well deserves.